Curse

tmr819 · Jan 02, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Thanks for the tips, at the moment I'm excited enough about getting to level 10 (my first pet!) But a mount is definately one of the perks of WoW.

Nothing in GW even comes close to the handling of rangers/pets in WoW. WoW ranger pets blow GW ranger pets completely out of the water, imo, in terms of customizability and just pure fun. The whole teach-your-pet-skills-by-taming-other-pets concept took me forever to figure out in WoW, tho. (If you want a helpful WoW pet info link, I always liked this one: Hunter Pets in WoW. It tells you what abilities you can learn from what pets and where to find them.)

Enjoy!

Bryant Again · Jan 02, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Thanks for the tips, at the moment I'm excited enough about getting to level 10 (my first pet!) But a mount is definately one of the perks of WoW.

I'm in Skywall, IGN Lugh. But don't bother whispering at the moment, I'm on a trial account, and can't whisper back. (I'm such a cheapskate). I'll upgrade to full membership on January 12, however.

(I was going to PM you all this info, but your storage is full!

)

Whoa. Did you go to Skywall by chance or did you read one of my old posts?? It's a *really* good server.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

For most players once they have given GW a try, there's just no comparison. It is obviously the reason you send your friends elsewhere, Oblivion etc. . . you don't have to dance around it, your reasons are transparent. GW is gaining fast, could be it will even catch up by the time GW2 Releases. Especially once Arena Net starts their GW2's add campaign. More people are leaving WoW and joining GW than the other way around, and for very good reasons. Ergo this thread. and this thread. I don't think your kind of damage control is going to work.

...So you think I'm trying to prevent people from going to Guild Wars? That I'm afraid that Guild Wars will somehow "kill" WoW? That I scheme to prevent people from going to GW by saying "lol no it sucks do this instead?" That I want to prevent it's popularity through all this???

I'm not trying to hurt Guild Wars' success. I'm trying to prevent some of my friends from spending money on a game that won't satisfy their needs. When they ask why I don't recommend Guild Wars, I say "because the level cap is easy, the gear cap is quick, and there's only a few dungeons there for end-game. It's a game you can complete in a matter of days."

And they say "Oh, okay then." I then tell them they can get a trial and they say "nah that's okay." I'm not trying to deter them away, I'm telling them that the things that they like the most are not *IN* Guild Wars.

Likewise, there have been a few people I've known that I've told about Guild Wars that have played it and *loved* it, and that's good because all of the campaigns are especially cheap these days.

All in all, it saddens me that this is how I look to you. I come as an honest poster and you resort to pointing fingers at me, accusing me of trying to turn away people from a game that I love and have spent a lot of time playing. Instead of taking to heart what I say you instead ignore it. Instead of believing me when I say "I (and the people I play with) enjoy what we're doing," you say "bullshit."

Again, I'm say that I look like a fraud to you. And that I'm also sorry that you can't believe that I, and a lot of other people, enjoy what we're doing.

I would post something a little more constructive to your post, but I don't think there's much point to that right now.

Inbox is empty now Mordakai, thanks for the heads up : )

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Agreed, Hunters in WoW are very nice if you are Beastmaster or Marksman. Survival isn't quite as good though. Nor are the bow physics in WoW as realistic. No actual dodging, just Dodge stats. .. Nor do you have bow types, types that actually mean something.

I would say Warriors are far more fleshed out in GW, primarily because of the breadth of skills as well many reactive skills, The Duel-wield thing in WoW is a much better feature Vs GW Warriors, but having fully played Warriors in both games, GWs has a lot more range.

Priests are an interesting contrast between games as well. Shadow priest, Vs Holy priests. Healing Vs Healing, Protection Vs Discipline. . Mind Control was a real hoot in WoW. Mostly Shadow'd in PvP, but everyone expects you to heal if you are a priests, regardless of whether you are in Shadow Form.

Other really neat things in WoW are the Stealth and Fear talent/skills, both hated and revered as they're so dramatically effective.

Cacheelma · Jan 02, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

For most players once they have given GW a try, there's just no comparison. It is obviously the reason you send your friends elsewhere, Oblivion etc. . . you don't have to dance around it, your reasons are transparent. GW is gaining fast, could be it will even catch up by the time GW2 Releases. Especially once Arena Net starts their GW2's add campaign. More people are leaving WoW and joining GW than the other way around, and for very good reasons. Ergo this thread. And this thread. (Addiction Withdraws) I don't think your kind of damage control is going to work.

Fooling yourself is bad enough. Please don't try to accuse some other people because of your dillusion too. It's PATHETIC.

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

When they ask why I don't recommend Guild Wars, I say "because the level cap is easy, the gear cap is quick, and there's only a few dungeons there for end-game. It's a game you can complete in a matter of days."

You claim to your friends that GW takes days to finish, but in the next breath claim you have personally spent a lot of time playing GW. I'm just having a hard time grasping your logic.

I guess this is where we differ, having played all the campaigns, taking several months as a casual effort. Now Playing in HM a second time through, the entire game is considered Content -- EVERYTHING. Starter areas, Starter missions. Considering the amount of content in HM vs repeating WoW's Gerbil Wheel endgame adnausium. . . not sure WoW really holds up. I really completely disagree with your claim GW can be completed in Days. I've always considered Questing and Missions in hard-mode rather challenging, I guess I'm not half as good as I should be.

I'm sorry for seeming aggressive, but in any debate, illogical reason and dancing around issues is nothing more than an open Wound, and blood in the water.

rubina1 · Jan 02, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

NetHack, Moria, Angband, Omega, Rogue, Arena and TradeWars forever.

Bryant Again · Jan 02, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

You claim to your friends that GW takes days to finish, but in the next breath claim you have personally spent a lot of time playing GW. I'm just having a hard time grasping your logic.

Completed in a matter of days, yes, for a single campaign. I'd say if you were totally into it you could get it done in under a week. For multiple campaigns it's a difference, but requires a greater cost.

I spent so much time with Guild Wars because I tried to make something out of Guild Wars that it doesn't have: End-game. In terms of actual content, Guild Wars has little. Sure you can title hunt and acquire different looking weapons, but that was about it. See below for my comment on Hard Mode.

Most of my time was spent grinding cash for armor. Not what I'd really call content.

Not only that, but most people don't like their games to end. WoW doesn't end, Oblivion doesn't end, Morrowind doesn't end, MMO's do not end - but Guild Wars does. This is why Guild Wars is much more of an RPG than an MMO, hence why I do not call it an MMO.

Quote:

I guess this is where we differ, having played all the campaigns, taking several months as a casual effort. Now Playing in HM a second time through, the entire game is considered Content -- EVERYTHING. Starter areas, Starter missions. Considering the amount of content in HM vs repeating WoW's Gerbil Wheel endgame adnausium. . . not sure WoW really holds up. I really completely disagree with your claim GW can be completed in Days. I've always considered, Questing and Missions in hard-mode rather challenging, I guess I'm not half as good as I should be.

Hard mode hasn't proven to be terribly challenging to me. A quick build configuration, sure, but certainly not enough to have me playing through everything a second time with slight variation. If I wanted "slight variation", I'd play with a different profession.

And now that you mention it, WoW too has a hard mode for it's dungeons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I'm sorry for seeming aggressive, but in any debate, illogical reason and dancing around issues is nothing more than an open Wound, and blood in the water.

You're not being aggressive, you're being illogical. You accused me of something ridiculous.

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Not only that, but most people don't like their games to end. WoW doesn't end, Oblivion doesn't end, Morrowind doesn't end, MMO's do not end - but Guild Wars does. This is why Guild Wars is much more of an RPG than an MMO, hence why I do not call it an MMO.

I guess GW1 does end if you're not taking into account GW2. Arena Net obviouly attempting a bridge with the Hall of Heroes. But GW1 in concept is identical to WoW, were it contituing as earlier planned. So your saying that GW2 with added campaigns (if it be like GW1) etc. is just another RPG that ends. . . And WoW with it's mini expansions is somehow different? I see. . . FYI the only real difference that there is an actual STORY in GW.

Quote:

Hard mode hasn't proven to be terribly challenging to me. A quick build configuration, sure, but certainly not enough to have me playing through everything a second time with slight variation. If I wanted "slight variation", I'd play with a different profession.

And now that you mention it, WoW too has a hard mode for it's dungeons

No, WoW does not have GW's entire Game World Hard Mode. a few dungeons at end game is completely different. It's intuitively obvious to anyone that has played both games that WoW pales in comparison [your dancing again].

And the fact that you consider repeating a few of the same WoW end-raid dungeons 2 dozen times to advance your Tier sets, somehow better than repeating the entire GW universe once in HM with a new character? . . . [dance]

I just can't seem to find any reality in what you're arguing. It is so perfectly flawed. You have issues with GW, it's aparent. You want it to be like WoW, that's apparent. You claim to love the game as a means of endearing yourself on these forums, all the while you have nothing good to say about it, to us, or your friends. Get a grip and focus man.

sterbenx2 · Jan 02, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I spent 5 monthes playing WoW. A year and a half playing Morrowind. And 32 monthes in GW.

All I have to say is, I still play GW. I wouldn't even be able to remember my WoW password. If WoW were free to play, I'd still play GW. If GW was 14.99 monthly, I'd still play GW.

What I like about GW vs. WoW: Map Travel, Ease of item swapping between chars, ease of directions on quests, more realistic graphics, don't have to worry about making a char on the same server as friends, OPTIONAL grind, Low lvl cap, TONS of "after max lvl" content, Vault universal to all chars, no fee, events, minis, fantastic and varied PvP

What I like about WoW vs GW. Ablitiy to make your own equipment. (but still just grind) Fishing, was boring (grind) but i liked it, dunno.. and most of all. being able to explore and actually find things. other than that, WoW ftl.

And remember, WoW may be played by many more people but the masses don't always know what they're doing. Reminds me of the VHS vs Beta.. VHS won. Beta was better. Computers? PC wins but Macs are better.. hm.

GW2 will be the WoW killer.

Bryant Again · Jan 02, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I guess GW1 does end if you're not taking into account GW2. Arena Net obviouly attempting a bridge with the Hall of Heroes.

In what sense? The games does not end because you're farming titles? And by Hall of Heroes I'm assuming of Monuments?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

So your saying that GW2 with added campaigns (if it be like GW1) etc. is just another RPG that ends. . . And WoW with it's mini expansions is somehow different? I see. . .

You won't see WoW stopping it's expansions and updates anytime soon, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

FYI the only real difference that there is an actual STORY in GW.

Explore a story (GW) or make your own (WoW)? Different strokes, different folks.

And GW:EN's forced character story-telling pissed me off. Seeing my character yell "There's the Charr! Kill them all" is something he would definantly not say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

No, WoW does not have GW's entire Game World Hard Mode.

Got me there. I was going to mention that, but the sentence sounded goofy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

And the fact that you consider repeating a few of the same WoW end-raid dungeons 2 dozen times to advance your Tier sets, somehow better than repeating the entire GW universe once in HM with a new character?

It's better for me because I enjoy the raiding system. Being with 24 other people, downing huge and numerable monsters and then reaching a boss that has a rather complex encounter is nothing sort of epic.

I also enjoy helping my fellow guildies out with advancing their own gear. It doesn't hurt that they're enjoyable, funny and awesome people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I just can't seem to find any reality in what you're arguing. It is so perfectly flawed. You have issues with GW, it's aparent. You want it to be like WoW, that's apparent.

In terms of how I want it to be like WoW - endgame, higher levels, loot incentive, free-roaming persistancy - then yes. In terms of commitment and grouping, no. It may be better to say I'd like it more like Diabloblivion, I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

...all the while you have nothing good to say about it, to us, or your friends.

Please do not assume. Do not assume that I have never said anything good about it around these forums, to me friends, or anyone else. Not only is unsafe to assume, you're also wrong.

Guild Wars is by far a great game. The action is fun, the professions are cool, the graphics are pretty, the story is interesting. The list goes on.

Guild Wars is very good at one thing: Hooking onto you for what it has - and what it has is awesome. It just doesn't last, and that's what a lot of people want: They want a game that lasts.

I don't want people coming onto Guild Wars with the expectations that it is an MMO, another reason I don't like telling my MMO friends who ask about it. They usually want something to satiate their needs, and Guild Wars doesn't have that. That's something that's really hurt Guild Wars, and is essentially a large reason why GW2 is going in a much more MMO direction.

And just a little throw-out off topic note in terms of map travel. I remember one of the complaints by a large number of Morrowind players towards Oblivion was that Oblivion had map travel. Not saying as an argument, just thought it was interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

Computers? PC wins but Macs are better.. hm.

lolwut?

Mordakai · Jan 02, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

Nothing in GW even comes close to the handling of rangers/pets in WoW. WoW ranger pets blow GW ranger pets completely out of the water, imo, in terms of customizability and just pure fun. The whole teach-your-pet-skills-by-taming-other-pets concept took me forever to figure out in WoW, tho. (If you want a helpful WoW pet info link, I always liked this one: Hunter Pets in WoW. It tells you what abilities you can learn from what pets and where to find them.)

Enjoy!

I think the Pet system symbolized the differences between the two games very nicely.

In Guild Wars, you charm your pet, and can try to make it evolve in a certain way. That's really all the control you have. All pets (save the bear), have the same stats.

WoW has a much more complex system, that requires the use of stables in order to get all the skills you want for your pet. Not to mention there are several unique skills only available to certain pet types.

This carries over to character customization, crafting, weapons, gear, etc.

In short: WoW is a very complex game where GW is basically very simple.

That's not to say one is "better" than the other! These are two very different games in a similar RPG genre.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll probably enjoy playing either at different times, depending on what mood I'm in.

shadowfell · Jan 02, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I've been playing warcraft since august of 2006. I went to that game from GW, which I had started playing in august of 2005 and pretty much put down right around the time I started warcraft.

I have at max level in Gw, a warrior, elementalist, monk, ritualist, assassin, mesmer and a ranger. In warcraft, at 70, I have a blood elf paladin, an undead rogue, tauren druid and a warlock, undead at 62.

I recently purchased the nightfall expansion and eye of the north expansions as I had missed out on both of those at their opening, due to playing warcraft.

If you want pvp, and to play pvp for actual skill based reasons, instead of wtfpwning someone because of your gear, play guild wars. Warcraft is really big on gear > skill, despite their efforts to level this playing field with arenas.

At the moment, they are trying to introduce arenas to the mainstream esport world, however, every season has been pockmarked with win-trading and exploiting by teams who essentially trade loss for wins with friends to achieve the ratings they need for gladiators. Pretty sure this wouldn't fly in arena nets face, considering what they did to one hitter quitters a couple years ago.

World of Warcraft is extremely grindy. With the addition of Burning Crusade, even more so. It used to be that a person could turn in rune cloth or quest, or kill certain mobs to achieve reputation with factions for recipes, items and mounts, but now you can do all of that, and sort of need to do all of that with 4 x the factions to obtain reputation to enter limited instances, items and enchants for items that you cannot get otherwise.

I was a little dissappointed on returning briefly to Guild Wars to see that they have followed a grindcraft pattern, and frankly, it turned me off of the game before I could cancel my order.

In the end, I will probably stick with warcraft because I am having a harder time readjusting to the guild wars game play than I thought I would, but who knows. At this point, I am pretty far behind everyone and I doubt getting groups is terribly easy so, I'll stick with what I know, until the next thing comes along.

Auction houses are invaluable, pet control IS that much better in warcraft but I really like the graphics and skills and classes in guild wars better over all. If I could have guild wars on the scale of warcraft, I would probably be most content. I like the ability to merge classes and skills to behave a certain way, whereas with warcraft you are very limited in your abilities unless you play certain classes with particular specs. There are different ways to play your character in guild wars, with many different combinations, but in warcraft, you are pretty much pigeon holed into restoration druid, ms warrior, holy pally, frost mage or sl/sl lock for pvp. Also, I really really miss mesmers.

I'm hoping that warhammer can merge the things I like about both of these games. =]

Mordakai · Jan 02, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I'm hoping that warhammer can merge the things I like about both of these games. =]

Isn't Warhammer going to be primarily PvP?

I have a feeling that Warhammer will fail. And yes, I know Warhammer came first, I've played Empire vs Dark Elves on my kitchen table. But unless they can create a fantasy game that's different and/or better than:

Guild Wars
WoW
Everquest II
Lineage II
LoTR Online
etc...

It's just a very crowded market right now. I'd hate to be a designer of one of the other MMORPGs

shadowfell · Jan 02, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Isn't Warhammer going to be primarily PvP?

Yes.

I like pvp, I prefer pvp.

I like the mass appeal warcraft has over guild wars.

I like how guild wars looks over warcraft.

I like guild wars class combinations better.

Hopefully...

Warhammer will merge what I like about both games.

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You won't see WoW stopping it's expansions and updates anytime soon, though.

GW1 has kinda ended, because of what its engine cannot do. Not because it's universe has some sort of ending. GW2 will be it's continuation, I'm not sure the GW universe will end anytime soon, nor the Warcraft Universe. We may have to wait a few years for the next rendition.

Quote:

Explore a story (GW) or make your own (WoW)? Different strokes, different folksAnd GW:EN's forced character story-telling pissed me off. Seeing my character yell "There's the Charr! Kill them all" is something he would definantly not say.

I somewhat agree, having spent most my time on ER and having been in an amazing RP guild. GW is not as conducive to RP. Though, I do like the stories you get in GW, much more than the ones you don't in WoW. In GW if you're any good at RPing you can just RP around your character yelling "There The charr!!! Oops sorry too much coffee, I didn't mean to yell."

Quote:

Got me there. I was going to mention that, but the sentence sounded goofy.

It's been a good debate, and your very correct in many of your comparisons. But many of them are still within the "Eye of the Beholder's" realm.{As are my comparisons.} To each his own.

Quote:

It's better for me because I enjoy the raiding system. Being with 24 other people, downing huge and numerable monsters and then reaching a boss that has a rather complex encounter is nothing short of epic.

Agreed, but to do it so many, many, many times just to advance your character is where I had to get off the gravy train.

Quote:

I also enjoy helping my fellow guildies out with advancing their own gear. It doesn't hurt that they're enjoyable, funny and awesome people.

Best part of WoW and I've still not found a comparable guild, nor had the enormous time available to cultivate such friendships, in GW. Though I've opted to spend more time with my family and friends in RL. That is one of the reasons why I feel "Guild Wars" is such an amazing accomplishment. Comparable if not exceeding WoW in many ways, not so great in others, but you're able to have the best of both worlds. Great Gaming and a great family life.

Quote:

In terms of how I want it to be like WoW - endgame, higher levels, loot incentive, free-roaming persistency - then yes. In terms of commitment and grouping, no. It may be better to say I'd like it more like Diabloblivion, I guess.

And I'm sure Arena Net is listening.

Quote:

Do not assume that I have never said anything good about it around these forums, to my friends, or anyone else. Not only is unsafe to assume, you're also wrong.

I'm just feinting and jabbing. Trying to throw ya off balance, but you've stood your ground.

Anyway, I hope most readers following this thread fire up the Trial of WoW to see for themselves--if they haven't already. It is a wonderful game, but much different than GW in many, many ways.

(The guys at GWO are still many pages ahead, but I'm running out of steam. . . .. /e eyes a smelly pair of shoes off in the corner wondering if his (29) Shadow Priest is ready for a little AB)

Taurucis · Jan 02, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

And I'm sure Arena Net is listening.

Don't kid yourself.

CHannum · Jan 03, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Completed in a matter of days, yes, for a single campaign.

Yes, this is why after more than a month not one of my little group of friends I got to take up GW is done with Prophecies (the only campaign they're playing) and I haven't even so much as managed to finish Factions in over a month.

You're just talking out of your ass at this point. You *can* "finish" these campaigns in your time frame or less if you're an asshat who simply is seeking to beat the game, which is pretty much pointless, we can both agree on that. At least before BC, the WoW forums were littered with the whining from those who had blown to level 60 and were bored in a month. Either game's value lies in what you want to do besides "finish".

You, clearly, get more out of WoW's extra stuff, fair enough, but stop trying to use such clearly biased analyses. You can argue the shallowness of WoW as easily as you can arge the shallowness of GW. The point is not to hit L70 or L20, it's to play around and do things that entertain you.

tmr819 · Jan 03, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Anyway, I hope most readers following this thread fire up the Trial of WoW to see for themselves--if they haven't already. It is a wonderful game, but much different than GW in many, many ways.

I would really second this. Everyone should try WoW at least once on the free trial when it comes around. I'm a big believer in free trials!

It was a free trial for Factions that got me started in Guild Wars, and I was completely won over by it. I really do think GW is the better game at least for my playing style. However, unless ArenaNet can keep things in GW1 fresh and interesting (by opening up FoW, etc., to hero/hench solo teams, adding more bonus missions, releasing another expansion, or something...), I kind of doubt there is enough in GW1 to keep me occupied till GW2 is released.

I'll probably end up taking my tauren druid and other WoW characters out of "cold storage" for another spin in 2008. I'm still having plenty of fun in GW, but it's not going to keep me going for a calendar year, no way. WoW is a pretty good fallback, or perhaps Age of Conan might be worth a try as well.

Bryant Again · Jan 03, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

GW1 has kinda ended, because of what its engine cannot do. Not because it's universe has some sort of ending. GW2 will be it's continuation, I'm not sure the GW universe will end anytime soon, nor the Warcraft Universe. We may have to wait a few years for the next rendition.

Straight from Jeff himself. One of the reasons for moving onto GW2 was because of a large number of engine related limitations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Agreed, but to do it so many, many, many times just to advance your character is where I had to get off the gravy train.

And not everyone likes gravy. I love it, but too much of it and I need fill myself with some cranberry sauce, instead.

Damn, I want it to be Thanksgiving again. Cook up a turkey, bro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

The point is not to hit L70 or L20, it's to play around and do things that entertain you.

Guild Wars, when done with the campaigns, does not offer a whole lot after that. For many that's not the case, for many it is. But it's been a large complaint nonetheless.

But people can't really complain, though. It's just an RPG, not an MMO. It's not meant to hold you.

Redfeather1975 · Jan 03, 2008, 04:04 AM // 04:04

My last post in another topic made me realize something that more games should be doing.
Games should be finding ways to reward the player and not the character. It was mentioned in that last topic about how account based rewards can be better than character based rewards. I really think account based rewards are something WoW should be doing.
I've already talked about my disliking the popular mmorpg design in how addictive it can become, and I think part of that is how players are forced to nurture a character. Accomplishments are vicarious. And rewards are given to the character, not the player.
If a player really accomplished something they should have something to show for it even if they delete the character they used to accomplish it with. I think games would be more enjoyable that way.